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Albums to Remember
TotalPost:217
Designers - What are your thoughts Reply

    Just wondering what your thoughts are on this:

    If we see another designer post a kit that breaks a CU designers TOU should we let the kit designer know? What about the CU designer. Can we hold each other accountable?

    I know in the past if I have used some CU items that need to be credited there wasn't really a way so I was never sure what to do. I have put it in my kit description but, after a wonderful suggestion from someone I have now started adding a credit page as a background in the kit to acknowledge CU stuff that requires it. It's not that hard to do. If I don't I am breaking the TOU of the CU designer. I would like to see us hold each other accountable and stop the abuse of CU designers stuff. Many do not allow freebies (which means no contest entries with their elements, recolored or not). I have viewed several kits breaking the no freebies rule of fellow designers.

    Are there others out there wanting to keep each other accountable or am I alone on this? I realize that some times people don't read TOU or get mixed up (It has happened to me) so I would love to be held accountable. If you see something that is a no,no in my kit let me know. I don't want to misuse other designers items. I try to create my own stuff but I also add a CU element here and there when I need it. When I use items that do not allow freebies then I don't put it in the contest or I charge a small amount for it or I add that specific element once the contest is over.

    Okay, my rant is over. Just wondering if anyone else out there feels the same.
11/12/2009 3:03:42

Laurrie
TotalPost:126
RE:Designers - What are your thoughts Reply

    Hi, am new on here, actually trying to design kits at all I am totally new with, and wanted to know what CU and TOU stand for? I think if there is something wrong with anything I do that I would love for someone to tell me, could be I have no idea that I have done something wrong, so yes we should hold each other accountable and I for one would love any tips on here :)
    Laurrie

    >Just wondering what your thoughts are on this:
    >
    >If we see another designer post a kit that breaks a CU designers TOU should we let the kit designer know? What about the CU designer. Can we hold each other accountable?
    >
    >I know in the past if I have used some CU items that need to be credited there wasn't really a way so I was never sure what to do. I have put it in my kit description but, after a wonderful suggestion from someone I have now started adding a credit page as a background in the kit to acknowledge CU stuff that requires it. It's not that hard to do. If I don't I am breaking the TOU of the CU designer. I would like to see us hold each other accountable and stop the abuse of CU designers stuff. Many do not allow freebies (which means no contest entries with their elements, recolored or not). I have viewed several kits breaking the no freebies rule of fellow designers.
    >
    >Are there others out there wanting to keep each other accountable or am I alone on this? I realize that some times people don't read TOU or get mixed up (It has happened to me) so I would love to be held accountable. If you see something that is a no,no in my kit let me know. I don't want to misuse other designers items. I try to create my own stuff but I also add a CU element here and there when I need it. When I use items that do not allow freebies then I don't put it in the contest or I charge a small amount for it or I add that specific element once the contest is over.
    >
    >Okay, my rant is over. Just wondering if anyone else out there feels the same.
11/12/2009 3:42:03

Albums to Remember
TotalPost:217
RE:Designers - What are your thoughts Reply

    Laurie,

    CU stand for Commercial Use - Some designers offer commercial use products for sale for other designers to recolor and sell in their digital kits. Many however do not allow freebies to be given away with these items. You need to read the TOU (see below) of each CU designer to see what they allow and do not allow.

    TOU stands for Terms of Use - each designer creates terms stating how you can use their CU items. Many do not allow freebies which means you cannot put them in the kit contest for free, but you could charge for them. Also, many require you to recolor and make items your own. When using a CU item be sure to read the TOU carefully as it will tell you what is and is not allowed. If you have questions contact the designer.

    As a newbie just wanted to let you know that you have to buy Commercial Use items from designers if you want to put something in your kit that you did not create. You cannot simply buy a regular kit, recolor and add the product into your kit. That is considered Piracy and is illegal. You have to have proper license to use the products. I encourage you to create all your own items/scan and extract your own stuff. This way you don't run into problems with licenses.

    Best wishes in getting started. Designing can be so much fun!
11/12/2009 3:57:46

Brooke Adkins (My-Time Scraps)
TotalPost:198
RE:RE:Designers - What are your thoughts Reply

    Barb,

    I like this idea also , Im going to do this also from now on, The bad part is that I got rid of some of my TOU's I will not be entering the contest anymore with my stuff so I know I wont be breaking those rules. I will be keeping all my TOU's from now on and making my own to add in my AC kits that says weather or not I used a item from another designer.

    Are you working on anything New for next weeks contest? I love your Kits :)
11/12/2009 4:43:29

Albums to Remember
TotalPost:217
RE:Designers - What are your thoughts Reply

    Yes, I am trying to get a new kit up for this weekend, not a full kit in the contest though.....thanks for the compliment. I started a part time job so I don't have as much time to create anymore.
11/12/2009 5:38:29

Laurrie
TotalPost:126
RE:Designers - What are your thoughts Reply

    Thank you for explaining everything!
11/12/2009 11:45:12

Alana
TotalPost:2347
RE:RE:Designers - What are your thoughts Reply

    I think your idea is right on the money. We all make mistakes or oversights. I would SO much rather a colleague let me know about it and I be given the chance to correct it, than to be humiliated and possibly lose my rights to participate any further activities. Although I haven't participated in uploading any kits (yet), I do know there is, for the most part, a sense of camaraderie among the designers here, and your suggestion would only serve to strengthen that kinship.

    As soon as I read the suggestion to add acknowledgements and any TOU's in a separate background I thought it seemed so obvious, why hadn't I thought of that when I was trying to figure it out. I know there are differences of opinion as to use of CU's at all and purists in design, that will ALWAYS be the case in the art world. But, I hope we all have the decency to at least talk to an individual first if we notice something we think might not be right.
11/12/2009 13:05:33

nancyRsmith
TotalPost:24
RE:Designers - What are your thoughts Reply

    I think the contest could get a whole lot more exciting if a conversation was started over on the general sharing area that let everyone know they only have to buy a complete kit with a CU & upload it for a chance to win $! :P We could even post links so they could find them easily.

    Seriously, I really don't think that anyone here wants anyone to bring up anything that would bring attention to whether they design a single thing or just buy-&-upload.

    But I do think that it's awesome that you posted bringing it up. It certainly doesn't seem to be a very popular stance to take here.




    >Just wondering what your thoughts are on this:
    >
    >If we see another designer post a kit that breaks a CU designers TOU should we let the kit designer know? What about the CU designer. Can we hold each other accountable?
    >
    >I know in the past if I have used some CU items that need to be credited there wasn't really a way so I was never sure what to do. I have put it in my kit description but, after a wonderful suggestion from someone I have now started adding a credit page as a background in the kit to acknowledge CU stuff that requires it. It's not that hard to do. If I don't I am breaking the TOU of the CU designer. I would like to see us hold each other accountable and stop the abuse of CU designers stuff. Many do not allow freebies (which means no contest entries with their elements, recolored or not). I have viewed several kits breaking the no freebies rule of fellow designers.
    >
    >Are there others out there wanting to keep each other accountable or am I alone on this? I realize that some times people don't read TOU or get mixed up (It has happened to me) so I would love to be held accountable. If you see something that is a no,no in my kit let me know. I don't want to misuse other designers items. I try to create my own stuff but I also add a CU element here and there when I need it. When I use items that do not allow freebies then I don't put it in the contest or I charge a small amount for it or I add that specific element once the contest is over.
    >
    >Okay, my rant is over. Just wondering if anyone else out there feels the same.
11/12/2009 20:10:35

Alana
TotalPost:2347
RE:RE:Designers - What are your thoughts Reply

    >I think the contest could get a whole lot more exciting if a conversation was started over on the general sharing area that let everyone know they only have to buy a complete kit with a CU & upload it for a chance to win $! :P We could even post links so they could find them easily.
    >
    >Seriously, I really don't think that anyone here wants anyone to bring up anything that would bring attention to whether they design a single thing or just buy-&-upload.
    >
    >But I do think that it's awesome that you posted bringing it up. It certainly doesn't seem to be a very popular stance to take here.


    Unfortunately, I think it's a lost cause there. Kit users will choose kits willy nilly, vote based on their own criteria and voting style (i.e. based on the preview image, or looking at the entire kit as images, or actually examining the actual functionality of the kit...), based on popularity or who knows what conditioned response has been set up in their brain. As much as we like to think they are conscientiously interpreting our designs and reading about the design, our pleas on voting fairly, ... most are lemmings (no offense anybody) and cannot be educated on how to choose and vote.

    Additionally, I think you understand this but I just want to clarify in case anybody else goes off on a tangent, I am sure that Barb is speaking of all kit design, not just the contest. I hope that we all want to be honest and accountable on all fronts. The contest lasts 2 weeks and only a percentage of the kits are entered in it anyway. All designs should be kosher even for the end-user's sake. You never know when something might balloon WAY out of proportion and the sooner you can stop the trickle-down effect, the better.

    HOWEVER, I do think it's a great idea to post a little educational discussion about CU's, TOU's & sharing in the chit chat section. There are many people on this forum who do love to learn, and they would take the application outside of AC. It has little use inside AC as you can't share your kits, you can only use them inside of AC.
11/12/2009 23:52:16

Albums to Remember
TotalPost:217
RE:Designers - What are your thoughts Reply

    Yes, I am talking all kits in general, not just contest kits. :) I think it is more proffesional to let each other know behind the scene instead of calling people out in public. That is why I am suggesting to Barry to require designers to have an email address where one can get ahold of them. If someone is breaking a designers TOU how are they supposed to contact them. :) It is not a huge deal, just something to think about/be aware of.
12/12/2009 9:36:01

blushbutter
TotalPost:31
RE:Designers - What are your thoughts Reply

    I know that your trying in the nicest possible way of letting the newbies here learn how and what not to do, but honestly I don't think the ones breaking the simple artistic and intellectual copyrights of the original creators read and agreed to the terms spelt out by Artscow to begin with!
    I have just found a kit by one of my favourite designers jaguarwoman.com renamed and uploaded by a pirate most likely given away as well to begin with!
    http://www.artscow.com/digital-scrapbooking/Carmensita-Kit-Butterflies-3166
    It mightn't be the most popular view point, but really artscow is the one to blame here in allowing amature designers(if you can call them that) to upload anything to their site which is from a pirated source. I would only being employing knowledgeable designers and artists to work for artscow instead of people who have no clue to intellectual property and copyright and how it pertains to them!
    Clearly this Carmen has taken out jaguarwomans TOU and repackaged to make her own, they are exactly the same ones I have purchased from Jaguarwomans site
    Terms of Use: You may use these images to create your projects for personal and commercial project, with these specific restrictions: None of the images included in this package may be given away or resold or redistributed as a standalone product or included in any graphic collections for sale or free distribution. This restriction includes redistribution in online groups for use in sig graphics, online galleries, or as Paint Shop Pro tubes. If the images are used to create derivative digital products for commercial sale they must be incorporated or edited/manipulated in some way that they become integrated into other artwork, i.e., they must be rendered into scenes, seamless background tiles, or borders in such a way that the original images can not be extracted. The images may be used for projects for print purposes such as greeting cards, graphics for teeshirts or mousepads or book covers or scrapbooking kits, but I would like to see the use to which they will be put and determine whether an additional licensing fee would be appropriate. In case you have any confusion over these Terms of Use, the concept here is that I do not want my work to simply be repackaged and resold in direct competition with itself. But I DO want designers to be able to incorporate these design elements into other derivative work for commercial purposes. When in doubt, address any inquiries concerning use for commercial print or digital commercial products to me at jaguarwomanATjaguarwoman.com.

    (2) Dana Sitarzewski
    Jaguarwoman Webdesign
    http://www.jaguarwoman.com
    jaguarwomanATjaguarwoman.com

    What's more in my atempt to have these pirated butterflies removed noticed there appears no immediate report abuse button to immediately remove them from sale for further verification, this setup is not good for designers as it stands and I would greatly appreciate artscow looking into it and correcting these issues!
13/2/2010 11:23:22

Alana
TotalPost:2347
RE:RE:Designers - What are your thoughts Reply

    I don't know the particulars, and I am ABSOLUTELY against piracy, and STRONGLY believe in copyrights, but I wish you and jaguarwoman would discuss this matter privately with the Designer. She does not speak English very well and the times I have spoken with her she has seemed sincere. I will contact jaguar woman w/ her email address. Everybody deserves the benefit of the doubt rather than to be paraded publicly across a forum when it is not the rest of our business to judge. (Although they are definitely Jaguarwoman's gorgeous butterflies)

    *****EDIT****
    I do believe strongly in anybody having the opportunity to upload their designs here. I would be remiss if Laurrie for one hadn't been encouraged to begin kit design and improve in leaps and bounds so much as to win the last design competition!!!! (YEA LAURRIE!!!!!!) As a designer myself, not of scrapbook kits, I have had my work stolen, and lost out of not only the proceeds, but also the advertising I should have been receiving where my name should have been associated with my design. The creative world is pretty sucky to control; we hear it from writers and musicians too. But to stifle creativity overall would be hurtful to a much larger group.

    I passed on all the information I have to Jaguarwoman, and I trust that Artscow will take the appropriate action to remove the kit. Unfortunately, further action will be a pain in the butt and I wish everybody involved the best. And I really hope that the Designer was seriously confused...
13/2/2010 11:39:30

blushbutter
TotalPost:31
RE:Designers - What are your thoughts Reply

    I don't think it is sincere to deliberately repackage another designer and artists graphics, there is nothing accidental about it, it's abuse of anothers copyrights.
    I believe I was asked my thoughts on this subject and this is what I am doing. There are artists being hurt by this site by amature designers who are being encouraged to produce kits for cash competition. These "newbies" are not doing the neccessary courses in intellectual copyright laws and should be before uploading anything for mass production which is what offering a kit on this site is. Not knowing English is no excuse, copyright law is available in most languages and through google enterpreter.

    Most the designers who allow CU with their kits mean for it to be used for an individual sale basis, not CU4CU which offering a kit for sale on this site is. The elements are not being downloaded onto private computers but are being mass destributed into several members accounts for life time use which is Extended Commercial Use for Mass production and generally requires extensive lisensing from the designer who developed the item/graphic from scratch. The end book could be mass published and sold which again is CU and needs extended lisensing fees and credits required.
    Jaguarwoman and I - blushbutter.com do not have the time required or should have to for that matter come here to peruse through 89 pages of kits looking for our graphics that have been pirated, come on, honestly since when is it the original creators responsibilty to chase around the whole internet in search of our pirated and misused artwork? Carmen knows what she's done is wrong, she just didn't think anyone on this site would care less or know any better because the system in place is with error and no accountabilty.
    I don't blame Carmen, I'm blaming artscow for allowing and encouraging amature designers to take up pirating and flipant designing with no regard for intellectual property rights. I would like to see better and stricter policies enforced on designers and artscow/designers being held accountable for what they intend selling/sharing through here.
    Every other store for digi scrapping have very harsh requirements on their designers. This is a professional site after all not a peer share server. Is it so hard to run background checks? To check where artwork is coming from, half the stuff I see looks like it's off photostock sites and they probably weren't asked either about end commercial use. To sell on myfonts I had to supply references from peers in the industry, would that be too hard a requirement?
13/2/2010 12:41:53

Alana
TotalPost:2347
RE:RE:Designers - What are your thoughts Reply

    You are right, that is your opinion. But to punish everybody and make the jump through hoops sucks. By your logic you must search all blogs on the internet too. Good luck searching the entire internet. I don't intend to sound rude; it just sounds as though you are being a little too limiting. Again, difference of opinion. I don't think you will have any luck in getting Artscow to run background checks for you.
13/2/2010 12:55:47

blushbutter
TotalPost:31
RE:Designers - What are your thoughts Reply

    No, I dare say their first law suit will get them to do that!

    Yes, jumping through hoops is never fun for anyone who doesn't take designing seriously, but to the few Professional designers who do take their artwork seriously it is just a regular daily requirement.
    Opening a site to distribute graphics through your software and not thinking that pirates could take advantage of that is a little niaeve whouldn't you say?
    Stock photo sites have to make their photographers jump through hoops, why do you think that is?
    They also have to deal with amatures uploading anything they can scan from books etc...

    It's no big challenge to get references from peers working on respectable digiscrap sites.

    No, artists shouldn't need to or have to chase all over the internet to police who is misusing their artwork, but a company like this needs to make it harder for misuse to occur in the first place.

    It's always good to have a healthy discussion and your opinion is most welcome, even if I don't agree with your view I appreciate you taking the time to offer it.
13/2/2010 13:36:11

Alana
TotalPost:2347
RE:RE:Designers - What are your thoughts Reply

    Just note that AC is in Hong Kong and you'll be hardpressed fighting and winning a copyright battle with them.

    You seem to misunderstand; I am all for copyright laws and all of my work is copyrighted. I also like to encourage creativity, with a level of guidance. I am just offended at your implications that the "newbie" designers are hopeless copyrighters who cannot read a TOU, and simply use CU kits to create their own. I understand that your friend's work appears to have been stolen, but to come here and start lashing out at other designers is baseless and rude. You can make generalizations, but you have not been offended by any of the other designers. To march in here on the offensive and attack the other designers does not sit well with me and I feel protective. If you have grounds for complaint, that is another story. But if you are just trying to create an issue where there is not one, your one example does not make a case; please back off. There are many fine people here, and this is not a digi-scrap store. You will notice that the kits for sale here cannot be downloaded and can only be used on Artscow. Artscow is making the majority of the profit on the kits, and the designers make a small portion. I am usually quite neutral, but you seem to be on the war path.
13/2/2010 13:52:29

blushbutter
TotalPost:31
RE:Designers - What are your thoughts Reply

    Alana your reply is anything but nuetral.
    I am offering my opinion if you don't like it you don't have to read it, you are entitled to ignore it and go your own way!

    Would you like for me to offer more examples? I thought you didn't want that! Unfortunately piracy is ugly and makes you have to view the fellow designers around you in a new light not a very sincere one at that!

    I guess unless your not offering CU product then my view wouldn't concern you?

    Please do me the curtousy of affording me as much respect as you have for Carmen!
    All I want is for a button to be supplied with every kit page to instantly disable abusive or pirated graphics, even blogs have that much!
    Why can't artscow be more attentitive with who they let create kits to be uploaded to their site, after all like you said they profit the most out of this arrangement, I don't think they care to have their reputation sullied by pirates operating on this site, whether you think copyrights could be argued in Hong Kong or not.
    So far you haven't given me any good reason to change my mind on the topic, have your graphics been pirated?
    As a young company I have grown with Artscow and have afforded them leniency with growing their business but now this site has 29000 members it needs to be a little more focussed with this small area of their site.
    It can never hurt to have more focus, true?

    Edit,

    I do not think all newbies are pirates and incapable of reading TOU and knowing copyrights as they pertain to fellow designers. I am just asking for more probationary training period for newbies not versed in those matters that can effect artists intellectual copyrights and property. It's a small matter to come in here and get feedback and training from fellow designers if they have the time and then they would also have peer suport references to sell. I for one would feel more comfortable if someone who didn't know would ask me if it was okay to repackage my art, I'm talking about avoiding what is going on right now.
    Education can never hurt?
13/2/2010 14:55:54

Alana
TotalPost:2347
RE:RE:Designers - What are your thoughts Reply

    I think you need to read my comments as closely as you expect your TOU's to be read.
13/2/2010 15:04:04

EnKay
TotalPost:8
RE:RE:Designers - What are your thoughts Reply


    >
    >Yes, jumping through hoops is never fun for anyone who doesn't take designing seriously, but to the few Professional designers who do take their artwork seriously it is just a regular daily requirement.



    I have watched this thread with interest and its obviously a moot point. None of us would like to think a designers work has been pirated and misrepresented. But I think your obviously low opinion of designers on this site has coloured your judgement.

    and if i were a designer I would be offended by your comment.

    you have the right to express your opinions but then but then you shouldn't be surprised that your condescending remarks provoke a defensive response

    can I suggest you suspend your judgemental approach and let the parties involved resolve this with each other
14/2/2010 22:26:35

Alana
TotalPost:2347
RE:RE:RE:Designers - What are your thoughts Reply

    The designer who posted the kit in question gave me the link where she found the FREE kit. It has been listed on that site, NOT the true designer's site, since 2008. She DOES feel terribly and HAS apologized to the original designer and removed the kit from Artscow. She has also learned what a huge mistake she made in using graphics which did not have ANY TOU. I have passed the information on to Jaguarwoman.com as well as posted a message on the site providing the pirated graphics. Hopefully this will bring Jaguarwoman much closer to catching the true culprit.

    The issue IS between the two of them at this point, and possibly with Artscow. It is not an issue for the rest of us, other than to be aware that if a kit does not come with a TOU, than we must be suspect. I hope that everybody can recognize that we ALL make mistakes and be forgiving that it is something that makes us human. Our dear designer DOES still have many adorable kits which ARE her original designs. If you have questions about them, feel free to write to her and ask her about them. She is a sweet, sincere woman who is upfront and forthcoming. I hope that we do not lose her as a designer on Artscow because of this.
14/2/2010 23:56:44
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